How do you deal with incessant undercutters?

Post by SherryD

Hi there! Sorry if this is the wrong forum. At any rate, I was hoping I could get some advice. This might be a bit of a long story, so I apologize.

I am a scribe and have been doing very well at selling glyphs for over a year now. I normally post maybe between 1-3 times a day, depending on whether I'm working or not, perhaps a little more on weekends when I don't have much to do. I've never been big on wildly undercutting my competition, mostly because I am fine with being patient and have other things to do in game, and I still make a comfortable amount of gold, all while my competitors can make some as well. It's been a pretty nice balance.

As of this past weekend, a low level bank alt came out of the blue and started strangling all of my auctions. Any glyphs, enchants, gems, scrolls... anything, really, that is posted even on my alts, is being undercut by this guy. He posts 6-7 of the same item at a time, and I realized that every time I logged out and came back, even 10 minutes later, I was undercut on all of my auctions.

Out of curiosity, I added him to my friend's list. It turns out he logs in not only roughly every 30 minutes to re-undercut (and does so well into the AMs time-wise as well), but he also comes back the minute I log off of my scribe. He is on just about all day, every day. It's pretty crazy. I have to give him kudos; I don't know how he has the patience to sit and auction all day!

I guess my question is; have you had to deal with this before? Do you still find you can make a profit with someone posting so many of one item and seeming to cover every single item in a single profession? Is there no way to make a profit with this guy suffocating the glyph market? Would you find another market entirely, or have you found a way to continue making profits in a similar situation?

Any advice would be awesome, or if you have any similar experiences to share, I wouldn't mind that either. :) Either way, if I have to try to find a market elsewhere I will, I just feel as though the glyphs have been doing so well, and it saddens me to think that one guy can pretty much shove everyone else out of the market!

Thanks for your time.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Kangi##DELIM##

Post by 584547

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Post by SherryD

When you ask...

Is there no way to make a profit with this guy suffocating the glyph market?

I wonder what kind of profit is acceptable?

I'm going to assume you collect your own herbs for inscription. Therefore, glyphs cost you almost nothing to make. Are you trying to sell them for 200g each? 20g each? If you are talking about the latter, it's nickels and dimes, you're better off selling the herbs or making gold some other way. If you are posting glyphs for high amounts, then your rival could be your best customer. Just undercut you rival so much (not by tiny increments), that he buys your stuff. You won't make as much gold, but you will save a ton of time.

Oh sorry, I actually buy the herbs via the auction house. The glyphs tend to range from small amounts (the paltry 20g) and up to 300. I could probably stop producing the low-cost glyphs and then do as you suggest with the high-priced ones. I am not out to make a HUGE profit, just enough to allow me to buy raid mats and to be able to get a nice mount or a piece of gear now and then. But with this new guy on the block, I haven't been making much at all.

Your suggestions make sense. I'll definitely try it out and see how that fares. I also have an herbalist so perhaps it's time to start farming mats as well. :)

Post by 539323

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Post by SherryD

If the market is as tight as it sounds, before you start farming herbs to sell/make glyphs. Be sure you do 30min of dailies/questing/scenarios and see how much gold your time is worth in terms of doing those. You could be making more gold with dailies etc... rather than farming herbs. Also, it's no risk income.

Not saying that is the case now, Just something to remember. Your time farming has a minimum gold value, equal to the money you'd have made doing more dailies (assuming you don't do them already).

Also, the remote auction house is no longer a premium service and is open to everyone. So you can keep a closer eye on your auctions if you have the time to visit the website, but not enough to login.

That's a good point! Thanks for the heads up. I do the dailies, so I'll keep track of what I make. I've never thought of gauging my time that way.

I do use the remote auction house, although I have too many auctions and often hit the limit. And then he comes up behind me and undercuts me about 10 minutes later and I've already used my transactions for the day.

Post by nephthyswanderer

Post by 879113

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Post by SherryD

Deal with him? He's just playing the same game as everybody else.

He's only going to go as low as he thinks the item is worth, that is it. He is entitled to make a profit aswell. It isn't your market, you don't own it, it just so happens another guy want's to sell the same goods.

Everybody buys at the lowest price and if this guy is supplying for lower than you want to go then I'm sorry but, I think it's time you started selling a different product.

I understand he's just playing the game. That's why I said I wouldn't mind moving on, but if anyone had ways to move around it, then it would be nice to know that I have a chance at selling something, too. That doesn't mean I want to start any sort of raging AH battle with him. I don't want to dominate or "own" the market either. I was just hoping there was a way to still make a profit even as he continues what he does.

I'm not an unreasonable person. I just think that if someone is completely and utterly dominating a market, there should be some way of combating it to some extent and still be able to make some gold. But I'm relatively new to the AH "business", and it never hurts to get some input from those more experienced with it.

And my point wasn't the fact that I'm unwilling to go lower than him. It was the fact that he's on nearly 24/7, undercutting every 30 minutes or so. And on more than just glyphs. Scrolls, gems, flasks. It's not wrong, of course, and if he has the time to do it, then all the more power to him. That's absolutely fine. But naturally, it gets a bit difficult to make money when you've got somebody doing that. So I can definitely move to another market if necessary, but I wasn't sure if there was anything else I could try before doing so.

But thanks for your help anyway.

Post by SherryD

Play with him. Drop the ceiling on the items you are pricing, let him undercut you, then buy him up and repost them.

Given that he is likely buying components off the AH himself, keep a tighter control on the herbs and inks. Take a glyph that requires a certain ink, buy them all. He can always counter by inktrading, but alot of times that's a lot of hassle and might not be as profitable.

If you are buying him low and controlling herbs for certain glyphs, he might move on to other things.

If you find that he is always on and pumping out an ungodly amount of glyphs, could he be a gold seller that is using a bot to farm herbs? Who knows.

Either way, combatting this takes money and time. :)

Yeah, you're certainly right. It would take a lot of money and time, and I don't think I'm really out to try and take the entire market from him. Really, I'm just hoping I can continue to make a bit of a profit from my glyphs. I'm totally cool with him making a profit as well, so I don't want to start any sort of AH war, but I guess it sure would be nice if he'd stop stalking it all week. Haha, but, hey, if that's how he enjoys to play, then chances are I probably won't have a chance at combating what he does. I think some people really love to play the AH as much as others do to raid. At that point, it's just their thing and there's no taking it back. :P

Post by Eccentrica

Odds are he has you on the friends list of all his alts, that's how he knows when you've logged off and when to undercut you. I do that on my crafters. I know who my main competitors are in certain markets and when they log, I know I can switch toons and post.

You could try posting your auctions from a different toon or multiple toons. You could also get really devious. Grab yourself a second account, post your auctions from a bank alt on that account, and don't log it off during prime hours. Just keep switching back to that toon every 15 minutes or so to move it just a little to keep from being disconnected.

Post by Azrile

Is playing the AH something you really enjoy?

As an altaholic, it could become too much for me... and really, even with add-ons is it really worth it to play the AH for items that sell for 20g. I just completely stopped doing it on my scribe. I have the shoulder enchants on my AH alt, and when the price of them goes up high enough, I list some. But I no longer log in 3 times a day to undercut the undercutters for items that sell for less than 200g. It just is not a fun way to play the game. There are a lot more interesting things to be doing.

I have done basically the same thing on my JC. I do the meta gems, and red gems, but all the other cuts sell for less than 50g.... it just is not worth cutting them and undercutting etc. When I grind gems, I keep the reds, make metas, and the uncut blue and yellows get sold uncut on the AH for dirt cheap. Just selling Reds and Metas more than pays for the ore and they are easy to keep track of.

TLDR.... it is just too much work to deal with things under 100g... running to the mailbox and have 100 mails of things unsold.. blah.

Post by Azrile

I also need to add,, whatever you do do.. do NOT buy out his stuff. herbs and ore are so plentiful that he will just keep making more. I made a killing the first week off of some idiot that thought he could ´corner´ the market on gems.. he was buying my yellow and blue gems for 99g and reposting them for 299. If you buy his glyphs, all that is going to happen different is you will have stacks and stacks of them in your bank.

Post by BlackMonarch

*ahem*

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=207067/dear-undercutters-please-keep-undercutting-each-other

It's a long read, so I suggest getting some food ready before you delve into it.

Post by Candlekeeper

Keep undercutting the undercutters until you are at the "production cost" - then buy them out, take your undercutts of the AH and re market everything at the price you want.

You will make money of them in an instant.

Post by SherryD

*ahem*

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=207067/dear-undercutters-please-keep-undercutting-each-other

It's a long read, so I suggest getting some food ready before you delve into it.

I was actually reading and enjoying that thread earlier today. Everyone was making some really good points there. I bookmarked it so I could continue.

Is playing the AH something you really enjoy?

TLDR.... it is just too much work to deal with things under 100g... running to the mailbox and have 100 mails of things unsold.. blah.

Yeah, I feel you there. Given that he is posting a huge amount of items from nearly every profession available.... trying to keep him undercut would be a huge hassle. It's pretty frustrating to know that every alt of mine is being constantly undercut by him, but at the same time, he has the benefit of always being around, while I am often at work and school, so I may just need to lay low for a while. I'd rather use what time I do have online to play the game and raid. :)

I guess the hardest part is the fact that he is covering every profession I have: flasks, glyphs, scrolls, and gems. I and several others were wondering just how to make any money with that kind of competition! Maybe it's just time to start gathering herbs and ore.

Odds are he has you on the friends list of all his alts, that's how he knows when you've logged off and when to undercut you.

I wouldn't doubt it! I guess I can't blame him since I did the same after I noticed his name was under nearly all of my auctions. Thanks for the advice, as well. That's one reason I was hesitant to really buy and repost. Seems he'll just pump out more and continue undercutting.

Post by 781960

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Monday

When you ask...

Is there no way to make a profit with this guy suffocating the glyph market?

I wonder what kind of profit is acceptable?

I'm going to assume you collect your own herbs for inscription. Therefore, glyphs cost you almost nothing to make.
Wrong, they're still "paying" with a sizable amount of time.

How would you value the glyphs, then, as a function of time?

Post by Rankkor

How do you deal with incessant undercutters?.

I wish I could just put my hands inside the screen and choke them slowly.

Been trying to sell these 12 golden lotus that I got from exchanging spirits of harmony. Started placing them at 350g each. Next day had to lower them to 320 due to an undercutter, which ended up being lowered the next day, and the next, and the next, and the next.

Its been 1 week, and what started at 350g, is now at 200 and STILL NOT ONE SELL.

Post by 1051247

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Post by Magician22773

Every server economy is different, but here are a few "general" tips.

First, glyphs are probably one of the most competitive markets, and very hard to get a good hold in the AH with them. They are easy and cheap to craft, there are really no "rare" glyphs anymore, since everything is learned via discovery. At least when the books were still around, you had a chance to have a glyph that every other scribe didn't have, but at this point, most max level scribes all have the same ones. You also have the fact they are a "one and done" purchase.

I personally stopped making glyphs for the AH long ago....except for a few days there when the new ones came out, and you could get a premium price until everyone finished their discovery.

Right now, DMF cards and decks, and the Off-Hands are where the profit is. On my server, cards are 2-5k each, decks are 30-50k. People are paying a boatload to get a good trinket for early raiding. However, I would say this market will plummet after this next fair week. With 2 sections of LFR open, people are getting gear from there, and the DMF cards are no longer as much a necessity for gearing up to raid.

Now, as for basic undercutters. The answer is always the same. You let them run the price down to a point, then you buy their goods out, and resell them. If you have enough of a bankroll, you can literally set the price on many items.

I do this almost daily with herbs. Herbs, especially Green Tea grow like weeds in Pandaria. I can easily farm 30 stacks in an hour, if not more. Right now, I have been keeping the price on my server at about 75g per stack. I will farm up 20 stacks or so, and if the price is near my 75g target, I will list mine. 1500g for 30-45 minutes farming...not a bad deal.

But, if an undercut war breaks out, I will start listing 10 stacks at a 5 gold undercut. Sometimes, these stacks get snatched up, but more often than not, the undercutter will re-list his under mine. I will play this game for a few rounds, and I have gotten stacks down to as low as 30g. At that point, I just buy out everything below my 75g target. Viola!.I now have 50-100 stacks of herbs that I can sell for 20-40g profit a stack, and I didn't have to leave Org.

This is not always the best advice. Remember, the 'undercutters' can be as stubborn and arrogant as anyone else.

You gotta make sure you have more patience, and more gold, than they do. Using my herb example, you better have 20k or more to gamble if you wanna play. And its not always "instant gratification". I have fought undercutters for 2 days until I finally ran them out of herbs, or they got tired of constant farming to keep up with me buying them out.

How do you deal with incessant undercutters?

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