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PVE vs PVP gear
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Post by
168846
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236839
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Post by
Dunsinane
Why would you think that PvP epics are going to be worth much in PvE at the start of WotLK?
With few exceptions, they underperformed in BC. Upon reaching 80, the PvP epics crowd won't even have the luxury of grabbing later season arena gear for honor. The itemization level of their equipment will be the same as that coming from the instances, and they'll be spending a lot of those points on stamina and resilience - worthless in PvE.
Let them grab their 1337 purples. Then blow them off the damage charts with better itemized PvE gear.
Post by
Solidhax
There is a disparity between pvp and pve gear. Anyone trying to do a raid in pvp gear will quickly be called out. Even in a casual raiding guild like the one I am in, it is NOT ok to show up in pvp gear. The reason for this is quite simple, pvp lacks the AP provided by pve gear. Plain and simple. pvp gear will allow you to live longer in pvp situations, but if you try to do any pve situation, you will find yourself fighting the same mob forever. Personally, I believe attack power should be completely removed from pvp gear. Resilience was introduced so that pvpers can last longer in pvp. Well removing all AP from pvp gear goes along the same line of thought. Also, no one would feel forced into bg/arenas for epic gear beacuse it would be completely useless for pve. Seriously, pve gear is useless in pvp, so it only seems fair to make pvp gear useless in pve.
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Post by
Corilithon
Well that's kinda it. For a role as important as Tanking or Healing, you're gonna have to make sure your gear is better itemized. DPS is a dime a dozen, what's the problem with letting them gear up a little easier, since they are each individually insignificant to the raid?
And it's not as if Healers can't use the pvp gear. I have rarely seen a healer (T4 content-wise, I mean) who doesn't have a few pieces of S2 or 3 healing gear, since the spellpower is still high enough to be useful.
Besides, some of us are actually casual players who don't have a lot of solid time to devote to pve. I know personally it would be hard if pvp epics couldn't be used in pve, I would be without gear all of a sudden having to dungeon for pve blues and epics from scratch all over again just in order to casually do a heroic or two.
Post by
Aadramelekh
I am also a supporter of more separation between PvP and PvE through more oriented gear. And after playing two months and a half of WotLK beta, I can say that Blizzard has finally taken some steps in the right direction, through more specialised item stats distribution. To give you a more detailed view of the situation, here are some comparisons:
Feral Druid Brutal Gladiator Set
and
Feral Thunderheart Harness Set
The Brutal Gladiator set has some 58 less strength and 36 less agility. But also has 36 more hit rating, 93 critical strike rating and 36 armor penetration rating. I think you all agree with the fact that is it easier to obtain the Brutal Gladiator pieces than the Thunderheart Set. Of course, going up to 2200 arena rating for the Brutal Gladiator Spaulders is not easy, but it sure takes less time for a skilled player to get them than to get into a guild, organise a 25 man raid and go kill Mother Shahraz for the Thunderheart Pauldrons. And look at the potential for a feral druid. Not only I consider the Brutal gear to be better for tanking, but also on par with the Tier 6 for DPS. The only things that make Tier 6 a bit better are the set bonuses. Only Sunwell gear is able to beat the Brutal set by a clear margin.
But now, regarding the level 80 ilvl 200 epic PvP and PvE sets, here goes:
Feral Druid Hateful Gladiator Set
and
Feral Heroes Dreamwalker Set
The 10 man Tier 7 set provides almost double AP, and a tad more critical strike rating, plus some haste. But NO MORE hit and armor penetration on the PvP set. This time, taking into account the set bonuses as well, the Heroes Dreamwalker set is clearly superior to the Hateful Gladiator set in terms of DPS and also in terms of tanking (although it has a bit less stamina, it allows for offensive gemming - mostly agility - while providing stamina socket bonuses, balancing things out).
And the fact that epic PvP gear will now require both honor and arena points as well as some personal and team arena rating will make sure that battleground afkers will no longer run around in Tier equivalent gear. And also now PvE geared players will have more weight in raids and thus priority over PvP geared ones, since PvE gear offers more specialised stats towards PvE purposes (best damage dealing, best tanking, best healing).
I remember I was taken as cat DPS in a 10 man Obsidian Sanctum raid. I was geared with a few heroic/10 man epics and 2xT7 pieces. There was also a rogue, premade PvP character in full blue lvl 80 PvP set (armor, jewels, trinkets and weapons). While the new 'hit cap' for raiding rogues will probably be around 500 hit rating, he only had - attention - 54 hit rating (!). And lousy AP compared to another rogue in our raid, who was PvE geared. That rogue was the only PvP geared player in the raid. He came out LAST in the DPS charts.
Finally, PvP gear will be more oriented towards survivability in PvP than before, leaving PvE gear the obvious better choice for PvE raiding.
Post by
235795
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Post by
ArgentSun
Worry not. Wrath PvP gear will require PvE tokens.
Post by
Aadramelekh
PvE tokens - as in Emblems of Heroism for the blue PvP gear and Emblems of Valor for the ilvl 200 epic PvP gear - will be an alternative for buying that gear. As in those that get enough drops from instances to sustain their PvE progress, and also want to do some PvP, can purchase entry level PvP gear by spending those Emblems.
So yes, for those that will despair they won't gather honor and arena points fast enough, there's still hope. The Emblems of Heroism are fairly easy to obtain, they drop from heroics as well as from 10 man raids. However, the Emblems of Valor only drop from heroic raids - that is, 25 man raids. So not every n00b will have access to epic PvP gear. It will require either honor points + arena points + arena rating, or Emblems of Valor from heroic raids. Only blue PvP ger will be easily available for everyone, as it costs only honor + arena points or Emblems of Heroism. No arena rating or heroic raiding required.
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